Question on racing for March Madness......

I just saw this post by TJ on another thread......

Sure can!!
Gates open at 9:00 qual runs start at 11:00

The classes for K/S have changed a little. Your class will be determined by you qualifying run times. Cars will be grouped together in "classes" based on their E.T.'s with a split of no more than .4 sec.

These classes will then run heads up racing on a Bracket tree. Buy backs are allowed only after the first round.

Ex: You do your 2 runs and the tower records your times, those times are averaged and you are grouped with othercars running the same average as you. so if your in like a stock GTO and you run a 8.8 and a 8.7, then you will put in "group 1"that is cars running between 8.7 and 9.0.

Al the K/S groups will be determined this way and size of the groups will be determined by turnout of participants. we're lookin at about 12-16 per group due to time.

Bike classes will be broken down and run the same way as the K/S.

Outlaw: the Outlaw class is straight up bracket racing. i.e. you do your practice runs determine you dial in and run that time. there will only be one class for outlaw. Same buyback rules apply as K/S,only after the first round.

Breakout criteria for K/S: this is to keep people from sand-bagging their qual runs to get in a slower class. Once you have been places in a specif time group, that is your target time. If you break out (go faster than) your target time by more than .5 sec, you will be disqualified. this will be determined by the coordinator on the ground (Me) or the tower (Eddie). Ex: if your in the 8.7 to 9.0 group, and you run a 8.6, that's not too big a deal, there's too many factors that could make you get a little faster like weather, hook, and so on. but if you run a 8.2 all of a sudden, then your done. Of course I will brief all of this before we start the actuall racing during the driver meeting.

T.J.

Is the outlaw class racing a bracket race, or is it a heads up format? In the posted rules it was never said, and i guess I assumed with taking 24 qualified cars, that it was going to be a heads up format, with 3 qulaifying runs to attempt to make the field.

Just looking for some clarification.

Thanks guys and gals.

Mark

Outlaw class is bracket format. buy backs after the first round.

The qual runs will determine the field of course, but 24 cars is a big number for that class. the only time you see more than 10-15 foot brake cars at Clarksville is during the $10,000 guaranteed Foot Brake in May. Then again I hope i get proven wrong which means a huge turnout to the clubs event.

Krutch21 wrote:Outlaw class is bracket format. buy backs after the first round.

The qual runs will determine the field of course, but 24 cars is a big number for that class. the only time you see more than 10-15 foot brake cars at Clarksville is during the $10,000 guaranteed Foot Brake in May. Then again I hope i get proven wrong which means a huge turnout to the clubs event.

:_lol_: haha, qwkphkr won't have to buy back in, he's gonna own everyone in his class

I talked to Eddie at the track. He explained the reason etc for these rules. Honestly I do not like these rules, but will have to deal with it. Just because who is King of the street cars? So all these other classes will be kings of there classes? Why should a car that runs 8.50 be considered King of the street? If Qwkpwr has the fastest car and attends and wins he should be crowned. I like the original rules Drag radials and Slicks. I Love Eddie and Karen they know this but if I would of made it back sooner I would of held and setup this event.

Too_Nuts wrote:I talked to Eddie at the track. He explained the reason etc for these rules. Honestly I do not like these rules, but will have to deal with it. Just because who is King of the street cars? So all these other classes will be kings of there classes? Why should a car that runs 8.50 be considered King of the street? If Qwkpwr has the fastest car and attends and wins he should be crowned. I like the original rules Drag radials and Slicks. I Love Eddie and Karen they know this but if I would of made it back sooner I would of held and setup this event.

I understand what you mean abou the king of the street part, however i took the feedback from last year and adjusted it for a better turn out. The feedback I had gotten was the fastest cars at the "King of the Street " last year were trailer queens and the few who di participate said they wouldn't this year if it was the same because there is no point to race a car that you already know is going to destroy you. which is exactly what happened.

King of the street is just a name for the Street leagal car class and the way I have it setup is so you only have a few tenths on the guy your racing and the skill will be on the driver not the car. The vast majority of people I've talked with about this idea think it's the best way to go. The way it's setup now will maximize participation.

The other option was to make it bracket racing. This, however, falls under lack of participation. if you look at the amount of people that go to the bracket racing then look at the amount of people that show after that for midnight madness, I've seen the amount of people on the track double and even triple on some nights.
So the two main things i took into consideration were: The big majority of STREET cars either don't know how or don't like bracket racing, and people don't want to pay $20 to have to try and race heads up with a car that obviously will outrun them by 3-4 full seconds.

Lastly, my question is: Ifyou tow your car around on a trailer and it just happens to be street legal but you never drive it on the street cuz it's too powerfull for it, is that really a street car? personally i don't think so.

many classes have been tried over the years to create a 'true street' class.

from forcing them to drive 25 miles in stop and go, to inspections for all legal equipment.

in the end an all-out class will always be won ouitright by the car with the most money in it, and not necessarily a real street car.

ie, a nascar 800-900 hp 355 SB2 in a full frame s-10 w/21.5" mickey thompsons.


the nmra broke the classes up like we did for EXACTLY this reason.

what it becomes then is a set of classes where a person attempts to get as close to the class minimum without going over.

lets say my car runs 7.80's. i run in the 8.00 class AND try to get my third run slow enough to average 8.00. IMO if you break out, you break out.

so risking running faster then the dial in is a part of the appeal.


just think of the old 9.0 1/4 mile dial bracket class. that was cool.

I do understand the managements decisions, they have a business to run and all.

Unfortunately, we won't be making the drive up for the race. Originally I thought that the KOS and outlaw were going to be heads up, as I read the rules and thought they were last year as well.

Our cars that were coming up are both street legal, both can drive as much as any other street car can, to the reference that we don't drive them all the time, well at $12.50 / gal you can understand why they might not be driven all the time. And yes that is our choice to design our motors to have to run on C-16, but that does not make them any less of a street car. Both cars have working head lights, tail lights, reverse lights, turn signals, horn, brake lights, hig beams, licensed, insured, and have provisions to put windshield wipers back on them if need be (Windshield wiper removal is a safety issue for running 190+ mph).

That being said, bracket racing is great. You can race with whatever and it does not matter as long as you can cut a light and run consistent. It allows everyone to race, and that works great. Unfortuantely, for turbo cars like ours, we can't run bracket racing. When you are running 5.20 or faster and could possibly be up against an 8+ second car, you can't be spooled on the line and be ready to launch after 3+ seconds, you will simply burn down your trans and clutches.

We really looked forward to coming, and missed it last year. We thrashed on both cars to get them ready, and only found out about the bracket racing through this post yeasterday from TJ.

No hard feeling here, at all. Just wish the rules had not changed so we could have participated. But I understand why they did, but I do hope those can understand why we cant race now either. Maybe the KOS should be set up like it is with bracket racing, but the outlaw class could have been heads up, that way you had a choice to run bracket or heads up and everyone had a class to choose from to run in.

Mark
markfisherrn@yahoo.com

I think TJ may have misunderstood or I didn't explain everything completely.. Sorry this has come out so late.

All the racing is Heads Up (Street, Bike and Outlaw). We are using the Bracket Tree 3 yellow light then green light or Sportsman Tree to others.

Outlaw class is strictly top qualifiers competing for the win.

Street & Bike class will be racing in individual classes, providing enough qualifiers for each class. The classes will be within a .5 tenths racing, once again enough qualifiers. Otherwise the top qualifiers in each class will compete for the win.

Hope this clarifies things more. I've been busy with setting everything up the last couple of days and haven't been paying attention to the boards.

Fast Eddie wrote:I think TJ may have misunderstood or I didn't explain everything completely.. Sorry this has come out so late.

All the racing is Heads Up (Street, Bike and Outlaw). We are using the Bracket Tree 3 yellow light then green light or Sportsman Tree to others.

Outlaw class is strictly top qualifiers competing for the win.

Street & Bike class will be racing in individual classes, providing enough qualifiers for each class. The classes will be within a .5 tenths racing, once again enough qualifiers. Otherwise the top qualifiers in each class will compete for the win.

Hope this clarifies things more. I've been busy with setting everything up the last couple of days and haven't been paying attention to the boards.

I'm sure most people can understand. You have alot of work on your hands, and I'm sure everyone appreciates it all.

Great. We will be there. Hope the weather permits us to race.

Eddie, if it is ok with you, I will give ya a ring early Saturday morning to find out the weather status and if it is indeed on for Saturday or pushed to Sunday. I have TJ's number as well.

Thanks for the clarification.

MArk

Damn this looks like I am assed out.

Krutch21 wrote:

Too_Nuts wrote:I talked to Eddie at the track. He explained the reason etc for these rules. Honestly I do not like these rules, but will have to deal with it. Just because who is King of the street cars? So all these other classes will be kings of there classes? Why should a car that runs 8.50 be considered King of the street? If Qwkpwr has the fastest car and attends and wins he should be crowned. I like the original rules Drag radials and Slicks. I Love Eddie and Karen they know this but if I would of made it back sooner I would of held and setup this event.

I understand what you mean abou the king of the street part, however i took the feedback from last year and adjusted it for a better turn out. The feedback I had gotten was the fastest cars at the "King of the Street " last year were trailer queens and the few who di participate said they wouldn't this year if it was the same because there is no point to race a car that you already know is going to destroy you. which is exactly what happened.

King of the street is just a name for the Street leagal car class and the way I have it setup is so you only have a few tenths on the guy your racing and the skill will be on the driver not the car. The vast majority of people I've talked with about this idea think it's the best way to go. The way it's setup now will maximize participation.

The other option was to make it bracket racing. This, however, falls under lack of participation. if you look at the amount of people that go to the bracket racing then look at the amount of people that show after that for midnight madness, I've seen the amount of people on the track double and even triple on some nights.
So the two main things i took into consideration were: The big majority of STREET cars either don't know how or don't like bracket racing, and people don't want to pay $20 to have to try and race heads up with a car that obviously will outrun them by 3-4 full seconds.

Lastly, my question is: Ifyou tow your car around on a trailer and it just happens to be street legal but you never drive it on the street cuz it's too powerfull for it, is that really a street car? personally i don't think so.

Well from your reply I can tell you are not a racer. First off your feedback is from one year! (Last year) when most of the 101st was deployed ! Did you attend the first year 2007? This event was put together not to be made into a BRACKET RACE Nor a INDEX Racing as you are desrcibing up above. Eric and Dave with my assistance put together SFR Southern Ford Racing. Long story! Eddie was invited to attend the 2007 event and do whatever and he help with a mustang support also. So in 2008 we was gone and I have no clue how 2008 was done. We do not copy NMRA, We do not copy bracket racing etc.. Like I said before if I knew Dave was gone and I returned sooner I would of put together the King of the street portion. The show shine I care less about..Drifting I care less about! Next thing..When you make enough power to snap axles, throw pistons through your block, or even do what I did blow your intake apart you would Understand about the trailer!! The Trailer gets your car home so you are not Stranded at the track. So please watch how you call or describe trailor QUEENS. Thats like saying since you put on SLP you are a Ricer, because lets be honest they sound like crap IMO and they make a bunch of noise on a stock mustang. Not saying your car has this exhaust because i do not even know you. Honestly the King of street should be a totally different event from the rest of racing that is being held. To me it sounds like people crying cause there cars are to slow and can not compete..Stuff happens when you race a bad light, something breaks or blows up you never know. KOS was never ment for slow cars! Its a Elete section set aside for really fast street cars! people who have something to prove or show off from! If you put 25grand in your car for show and shine you go to a car show. If you have a 1,000 rwhp car and have 25 grand in it and want to show how bad or fast it is, then it goes to KOS. Honestly I have only a low 7 sec car! But I would love to race Qwkpwr! Sounds like I would loose but you never know! With that said please understand this event was started with Eric and I sitting down outside in front of his house, when he would ask me why dont i join a mustang club etc. Dave and Eric ran with these ideas and Invented SFR and KOS was born. See you do this event for turn out #s and the mustang club you are part of to get money.. I do not!! With that said dont be supprised to see a King of the street event held AGAIN, real soon! If you guys do the event tomorrow I will probally come watch! Sorry so long ! I apologise if this seems like im attacking you..I am not, so please accept my apology! Just frustrated how KOS has been changed. I know Eddie and Karen with your mustang club has done alot of hard work!

It's All good man, and no hard feelings either way. But yes you do know me I'm the guy with the Mystic Cobra. lol

After Eddies clarification, and the way the races are set up The "outlaw class" is what you were describing as KOS should be. He gonna take the top 24 Fastest cars/top qualifiers and run them heads up off a Delay tree and winner takes all.
The The rest of the Classes are more of a sportman street race in time classes.

So really i think we were getting caught up in the Names of the classes and I had bad info on how outlaw was originally run.
I did use the Term "Trailer Quen" a little harshly in hindsight, I can relate since i'm changing up what i do to the Cobra to increase power and maintain it's drivablitly since It's my DD.
But no worries man, hope to se ya out there!
T.J.

LOL I picked you to win,Or the white TA. Did not know that was you. I think your sig name should be SMOKE. Heck ya you did with the trailor. Remember back last DEC When I ran that 6.68 pass and bent a push rod? I drove to the track that day and regreted it.

When we were out doin a little test and tune They got some pick of me breakin in the new set of tires and sending up a cloud i think i'll make a sig of that lol.